Meeting with Craig as follow up to proposal from Women's Group
Quote from terri_f on July 18, 2026, 9:43 amMeeting with Craig - 7/15/26, 10 a.m. Fireside Room (see attached pdf for a complete version with images)
Chris V., Lynn H., and Terri F. met with Craig to discuss the Women’s Group proposal regarding incorporating more feminine language in the Sunday service.
As a brief recap, this topic came up at our spring luncheon in a conversation with Erin Weber-Johnson who gave a presentation on the role of women in the Episcopal church and as a followup to our spring series of the Divine Feminine. Then Chris Vinsonhaler, with input from Linda Sturtz and tech support from Terri prepared a proposal regarding the Nicene Creed and its masculine language — could the Women’s Group suggest that the Affirmation of Faith from the NZ Book of Common Prayer be substituted for the NC occasionally? This proposal was discussed at the June meeting of the SJE Women’s Group and there was significant support, although not unanimous. Next Lynn sent a note to Craig requesting a meeting to discuss the language of the NC — meeting to include Chris, Terri and Lynn. Craig’s email response is attached below, which provides the background for the continued and regular use of the NC. As a result, the initial proposal to modify the exclusive use of the NC was withdrawn and today’s meeting is our first opportunity to sit with Craig and discuss options for inserting more inclusive language into the worship services at SJE.
As a start, Craig pointed out that, since the 1979 Prayer Book was adopted, there is considerably more flexibility in the wording of the Prayers of the People. Hence our meeting focused primarily on our making contributions to the Prayers of the People. Prior to our meeting, Chris shared a sheet with more suggestions (see attached to these notes.)
Chris also raised the possibility of delving into the history and foundational principles of why feminine language is appropriate. Paul inherits Spirit-language from the Hebrew Bible and Jewish apocalyptic thought. Ruach is breath, wind, life-force, prophetic power, divine animation, and God’s presence poured out on the community. Later Greek and Latin Christian language changes the field. Hebrew ruach is grammatically feminine; Greek pneuma is neuter; Latin spiritus is masculine. Note: A recovery of Jewish Spirit-language would restore divine presence as breath, wisdom, indwelling, nearness, maternal tenderness, and communal animation. This is not a modern feminist overlay. It is a return to a richer symbolic world. Genesis says that humanity, male and female, is created in the image of God. The divine image is not exhausted by masculine analogy.
Lynn responded that presenting this background material would be ideal, but would first require an in-depth educational offering, similar to what Dan Handschy, Roger Wilson and Craig are currently giving via a series of summer Forums on the background and meaning of the Eucharist. While this would be “ideal," it may not be practical right now, and that we can consider that in a longer-term strategy.
In our discussion, Craig suggested that the Women’s Group draw up a set of Prayers for the People for Advent. The prayers could use as a base, the 5 women we celebrated in the spring (Ruby Bridges, the Prophet Miriam, St Brigid of Kildare, Dorothy Day and Harriet Tubman), but we would not limit ourselves to that group. It was suggested that we aim for Advent and then eventually lead to a practice of once a month including Prayers for the People that are centered on the Divine Feminine. For example, in Advent we could consider saints such as Anne and Elizabeth as a tie-in to Advent.
Craig advised us to look at the Lectionary (https://www.episcopalchurch.org/lectionary/) for lectionary based prayers. Calendar example below - and he suggested we look for women we could select and celebrate according to the seasons.
We also discussed Collects for an inclusive church. Craig will check to see what we can do with Collects.
As examples, we discussed focusing on themes of healing prayer and nurturing in our suggested prayers and Collects..
We discussed identifying a group of women from the Women’s Groupwho would be interested in developing prayers for Advent. Names mentioned included Holly Stoerker, Erin Weber-Johnson, Mary Johnson, Kathy Brown, Chris Vinsonhaler, Linda Sturtz, and Terri Fishel. We would also invite other interested members of the Women’s Group to participate.
In the near-term, our goal would be to prepare drafts of Prayers for Advent in September/October to present to the Liturgy committee.. Then in February, we could prepare prayers for Lent.
Craig recommended looking at the current Prayers of the People format as we prepare our versions.
We had a brief conversation about Creeds and Craig mentioned the Masai Creed - “The Need for Creeds” interview for Tippett’s and Pelikan’s insights: https://onbeing.org/programs/jaroslav-pelikan-the-need-for-creeds/ including Pelikan’s discussion of the difference between the acculturation involved in the Masai’s Creed versus the Nazi’s Creed.
v Masai Creed, c. 1960, Congregation of the Holy Ghost in Nigeria 1. We believe in the one High God, who out of love created the beautiful world and everything good in it. He created the human person and wanted then to be happy in the world. God loves the world and every nation and tribe on the earth. We have known this High God in the darkness, and now we know him in the light. God promised in the book of his word, the Bible, that he would save the world and all the nations and tribes. 2. We believe that God made good his promise by sending his Son, Jesus Christ, a man in the flesh, a Jew by tribe, born poor in a little village, who left his home and was always on safari doing good, curing people by the power of God, teaching about God and humankind, showing that the meaning of religion is love. He was rejected by his people, tortured and nailed hands and feet to a cross, and died. He lay buried in the grave, but the hyenas did not touch him, and on the third day, he rose from the grave. He ascended to the skies. He is the Lord. 3. We believe that all our sins are forgiven through him. All who have faith in him must be sorry for their sins, be baptized in the Holy Spirit of God, live the rules of love and share the bread together in love, to announce the good news to others until Jesus comes again. We are waiting for him. He is alive. He lives. This we believe. Amen. [Source: Creeds & Confessions of Faith in the Christian Tradition, edited by Jaroslav Pelikan and Valerie Hotchkiss
(New Haven: Yale University Press, 2003), 568-569. Note: I have changed the word “man” referring to all human beings to “human person” or “humankind.”]
In addition to creeds, we touched briefly on Eucharistic Prayer B that changes in Advent and Lent.
Craig shared a resource that Chris has borrowed. This text delves into doctrinal disputes surrounding the nature of Christ during the first five centuries of Christianity that led to the formulation of The Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed. This resource will prevent us from falling into old Christological heresies as we develop language to make meaning of God in Christ.
Next steps:
Lynn will arrange for a group to work on developing prayers for the people for Advent. She also reminded us that “we can’t achieve the perfect”, but we can strive for “very good” and aim for completion by October.
Our meeting adjourned at 10:55
Excerpt from Craig’s email response to us from June 5:
“In the meantime, I offer a few resources to ponder together. The Episcopal
Church is currently authorized to use the following Creeds at Sunday
Worship:
- The Nicene Creed in The Book of Common Prayer (1979). This is the
translation St. John's proclaims on first, second, third, and fifth Sundays.
- The Nicene Creed in Enriching Our Worship (2009). This is the translation
St. John's proclaims on fourth Sundays and every Sunday from the Second
Sunday after Pentecost through the Feast of Christ the King (in this
translation the gender expansive "Who" instead of "He" is spoken when
addressing God The Holy Spirit).
- The Apostles' Creed is spoken on the five baptismal feast days and in
Daily Morning Prayer and Daily Evening Prayer. The Baptismal Covenant is an
adaptation of The Apostles' Creed which is proclaimed at liturgies involving
Holy Baptism and at Confirmations and Receptions. St. John's renews our
Baptismal Covenant at the five baptismal feasts: Easter Vigil, the Day of
Pentecost, All Saints' Day, the Sunday after All Saints' Day, and at the
Feast of the Baptism of our Lord.
I am ready to listen to, to collaborate with, and to serve all the people of
St. John's as best I can, within the parameters of my priestly vows. One of
my priestly vows is to "be loyal to the doctrine, discipline, and worship of
Christ as this Church has received them" and "in accordance with the canons
of this Church, [to] obey [my] bishop and other ministers who may have
authority over [me] and [my] work." As such, we may need to do some research
into the canons of The Episcopal Church to determine what resolutions have
been passed at General Conventions thus far regarding Creeds. Additionally,
we would only be authorized to make any changes to the authorized Creeds for
use at St. John's with the written permission of Bishop Craig Loya and
Jered.
Lastly, I offer one resource for all of us to listen to perhaps before we
meet: Krista Tippett's interview with Jaroslav Pelikan on "The Need for
Creeds" found here:
https://onbeing.org/programs/jaroslav-pelikan-the-need-for-creeds/.
I am looking forward to our conversation.”
Suggestions submitted by Chris this morning:
I do apologize for this last-minute suggestion, but I figured better late than never. In any case, I did a bit of research about already available liturgical resources for bringing in the language of the Divine Feminine in our service. This was the list that I have put together, and I'll bring printed copies.
The most practical possibilities are:
- Use feminine biblical names and images for God in the Prayers of the People.
The intercessions are one of the most adaptable portions of the Eucharist. They might address or describe God as:
- Holy Wisdom or Sophia
- Mother of us all
- God who bears and gives birth to creation
- Mother Hen who gathers her children
- She who comforts her people as a mother comforts her child
- The woman searching for the lost coin
These are not inventions imposed upon Scripture; they draw upon biblical metaphors for divine wisdom, birth, nurture, protection, searching, and consolation. They could be used periodically rather than every Sunday.
- Introduce feminine language in the opening collect or a seasonal prayer.
For example:
“Holy Wisdom, you call us into life and gather us at your table…”
or:
“God our Mother and Father, in whom we live and move and have our being…”
The Collect of the Day is generally appointed, so substitutions or substantial revisions should be discussed with the priest. A supplementary collect before the service, during the prayers, or after Communion may be easier to introduce.- Include Wisdom theology explicitly. The presider, preacher, or intercessor might identify Christ with the biblical figure of Divine Wisdom:
“Christ, the Wisdom of God”
“Holy Wisdom, who was with God in the beginning”
“Wisdom, who prepares her table and calls her children to the feast”
This is particularly appropriate in a Eucharistic context because Proverbs depicts Wisdom as preparing a table and inviting people to eat and drink. It also connects feminine imagery directly with Christ rather than treating it as a separate devotional addition.
- Use feminine imagery in hymns. ???
This may be the least procedurally difficult method. Hymns can depict God as mother, midwife, Wisdom, sheltering bird, life-giver, or the womb of creation. The Episcopal Church’s liturgical resources explicitly recognize hymns grounded in inclusive language and feminist theology. A congregation might introduce one such hymn monthly or during selected seasons.- Recover feminine imagery for the Holy Spirit.
The Spirit may be described through images such as breath, fire, dove, Wisdom, comforter, life-giver, and the one who labors within creation. This can be done in preaching, intercessions, hymnody, and introductions to the readings without altering the baptismal formula.- Use a recurring congregational response.
A modest response could normalize the imagery without redesigning the service:
“Holy Wisdom, hear our prayer.”
“Mothering God, renew your creation.”
“Gather us beneath your wings.”
This could appear in the Prayers of the People during a particular season or once a month.
Meeting with Craig - 7/15/26, 10 a.m. Fireside Room (see attached pdf for a complete version with images)
Chris V., Lynn H., and Terri F. met with Craig to discuss the Women’s Group proposal regarding incorporating more feminine language in the Sunday service.
As a brief recap, this topic came up at our spring luncheon in a conversation with Erin Weber-Johnson who gave a presentation on the role of women in the Episcopal church and as a followup to our spring series of the Divine Feminine. Then Chris Vinsonhaler, with input from Linda Sturtz and tech support from Terri prepared a proposal regarding the Nicene Creed and its masculine language — could the Women’s Group suggest that the Affirmation of Faith from the NZ Book of Common Prayer be substituted for the NC occasionally? This proposal was discussed at the June meeting of the SJE Women’s Group and there was significant support, although not unanimous. Next Lynn sent a note to Craig requesting a meeting to discuss the language of the NC — meeting to include Chris, Terri and Lynn. Craig’s email response is attached below, which provides the background for the continued and regular use of the NC. As a result, the initial proposal to modify the exclusive use of the NC was withdrawn and today’s meeting is our first opportunity to sit with Craig and discuss options for inserting more inclusive language into the worship services at SJE.
As a start, Craig pointed out that, since the 1979 Prayer Book was adopted, there is considerably more flexibility in the wording of the Prayers of the People. Hence our meeting focused primarily on our making contributions to the Prayers of the People. Prior to our meeting, Chris shared a sheet with more suggestions (see attached to these notes.)
Chris also raised the possibility of delving into the history and foundational principles of why feminine language is appropriate. Paul inherits Spirit-language from the Hebrew Bible and Jewish apocalyptic thought. Ruach is breath, wind, life-force, prophetic power, divine animation, and God’s presence poured out on the community. Later Greek and Latin Christian language changes the field. Hebrew ruach is grammatically feminine; Greek pneuma is neuter; Latin spiritus is masculine. Note: A recovery of Jewish Spirit-language would restore divine presence as breath, wisdom, indwelling, nearness, maternal tenderness, and communal animation. This is not a modern feminist overlay. It is a return to a richer symbolic world. Genesis says that humanity, male and female, is created in the image of God. The divine image is not exhausted by masculine analogy.
Lynn responded that presenting this background material would be ideal, but would first require an in-depth educational offering, similar to what Dan Handschy, Roger Wilson and Craig are currently giving via a series of summer Forums on the background and meaning of the Eucharist. While this would be “ideal," it may not be practical right now, and that we can consider that in a longer-term strategy.
In our discussion, Craig suggested that the Women’s Group draw up a set of Prayers for the People for Advent. The prayers could use as a base, the 5 women we celebrated in the spring (Ruby Bridges, the Prophet Miriam, St Brigid of Kildare, Dorothy Day and Harriet Tubman), but we would not limit ourselves to that group. It was suggested that we aim for Advent and then eventually lead to a practice of once a month including Prayers for the People that are centered on the Divine Feminine. For example, in Advent we could consider saints such as Anne and Elizabeth as a tie-in to Advent.
Craig advised us to look at the Lectionary (https://www.episcopalchurch.org/lectionary/) for lectionary based prayers. Calendar example below - and he suggested we look for women we could select and celebrate according to the seasons.
We also discussed Collects for an inclusive church. Craig will check to see what we can do with Collects.
As examples, we discussed focusing on themes of healing prayer and nurturing in our suggested prayers and Collects..
We discussed identifying a group of women from the Women’s Groupwho would be interested in developing prayers for Advent. Names mentioned included Holly Stoerker, Erin Weber-Johnson, Mary Johnson, Kathy Brown, Chris Vinsonhaler, Linda Sturtz, and Terri Fishel. We would also invite other interested members of the Women’s Group to participate.
In the near-term, our goal would be to prepare drafts of Prayers for Advent in September/October to present to the Liturgy committee.. Then in February, we could prepare prayers for Lent.
Craig recommended looking at the current Prayers of the People format as we prepare our versions.
We had a brief conversation about Creeds and Craig mentioned the Masai Creed - “The Need for Creeds” interview for Tippett’s and Pelikan’s insights: https://onbeing.org/programs/jaroslav-pelikan-the-need-for-creeds/ including Pelikan’s discussion of the difference between the acculturation involved in the Masai’s Creed versus the Nazi’s Creed.
v Masai Creed, c. 1960, Congregation of the Holy Ghost in Nigeria 1. We believe in the one High God, who out of love created the beautiful world and everything good in it. He created the human person and wanted then to be happy in the world. God loves the world and every nation and tribe on the earth. We have known this High God in the darkness, and now we know him in the light. God promised in the book of his word, the Bible, that he would save the world and all the nations and tribes. 2. We believe that God made good his promise by sending his Son, Jesus Christ, a man in the flesh, a Jew by tribe, born poor in a little village, who left his home and was always on safari doing good, curing people by the power of God, teaching about God and humankind, showing that the meaning of religion is love. He was rejected by his people, tortured and nailed hands and feet to a cross, and died. He lay buried in the grave, but the hyenas did not touch him, and on the third day, he rose from the grave. He ascended to the skies. He is the Lord. 3. We believe that all our sins are forgiven through him. All who have faith in him must be sorry for their sins, be baptized in the Holy Spirit of God, live the rules of love and share the bread together in love, to announce the good news to others until Jesus comes again. We are waiting for him. He is alive. He lives. This we believe. Amen. [Source: Creeds & Confessions of Faith in the Christian Tradition, edited by Jaroslav Pelikan and Valerie Hotchkiss
(New Haven: Yale University Press, 2003), 568-569. Note: I have changed the word “man” referring to all human beings to “human person” or “humankind.”]
In addition to creeds, we touched briefly on Eucharistic Prayer B that changes in Advent and Lent.
Craig shared a resource that Chris has borrowed. This text delves into doctrinal disputes surrounding the nature of Christ during the first five centuries of Christianity that led to the formulation of The Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed. This resource will prevent us from falling into old Christological heresies as we develop language to make meaning of God in Christ.
Next steps:
Lynn will arrange for a group to work on developing prayers for the people for Advent. She also reminded us that “we can’t achieve the perfect”, but we can strive for “very good” and aim for completion by October.
Our meeting adjourned at 10:55
Excerpt from Craig’s email response to us from June 5:
“In the meantime, I offer a few resources to ponder together. The Episcopal
Church is currently authorized to use the following Creeds at Sunday
Worship:
- The Nicene Creed in The Book of Common Prayer (1979). This is the
translation St. John's proclaims on first, second, third, and fifth Sundays.
- The Nicene Creed in Enriching Our Worship (2009). This is the translation
St. John's proclaims on fourth Sundays and every Sunday from the Second
Sunday after Pentecost through the Feast of Christ the King (in this
translation the gender expansive "Who" instead of "He" is spoken when
addressing God The Holy Spirit).
- The Apostles' Creed is spoken on the five baptismal feast days and in
Daily Morning Prayer and Daily Evening Prayer. The Baptismal Covenant is an
adaptation of The Apostles' Creed which is proclaimed at liturgies involving
Holy Baptism and at Confirmations and Receptions. St. John's renews our
Baptismal Covenant at the five baptismal feasts: Easter Vigil, the Day of
Pentecost, All Saints' Day, the Sunday after All Saints' Day, and at the
Feast of the Baptism of our Lord.
I am ready to listen to, to collaborate with, and to serve all the people of
St. John's as best I can, within the parameters of my priestly vows. One of
my priestly vows is to "be loyal to the doctrine, discipline, and worship of
Christ as this Church has received them" and "in accordance with the canons
of this Church, [to] obey [my] bishop and other ministers who may have
authority over [me] and [my] work." As such, we may need to do some research
into the canons of The Episcopal Church to determine what resolutions have
been passed at General Conventions thus far regarding Creeds. Additionally,
we would only be authorized to make any changes to the authorized Creeds for
use at St. John's with the written permission of Bishop Craig Loya and
Jered.
Lastly, I offer one resource for all of us to listen to perhaps before we
meet: Krista Tippett's interview with Jaroslav Pelikan on "The Need for
Creeds" found here:
https://onbeing.org/programs/jaroslav-pelikan-the-need-for-creeds/.
I am looking forward to our conversation.”
Suggestions submitted by Chris this morning:
I do apologize for this last-minute suggestion, but I figured better late than never. In any case, I did a bit of research about already available liturgical resources for bringing in the language of the Divine Feminine in our service. This was the list that I have put together, and I'll bring printed copies.
The most practical possibilities are:
- Use feminine biblical names and images for God in the Prayers of the People.
The intercessions are one of the most adaptable portions of the Eucharist. They might address or describe God as:
- Holy Wisdom or Sophia
- Mother of us all
- God who bears and gives birth to creation
- Mother Hen who gathers her children
- She who comforts her people as a mother comforts her child
- The woman searching for the lost coin
These are not inventions imposed upon Scripture; they draw upon biblical metaphors for divine wisdom, birth, nurture, protection, searching, and consolation. They could be used periodically rather than every Sunday.
- Introduce feminine language in the opening collect or a seasonal prayer.
For example:
“Holy Wisdom, you call us into life and gather us at your table…”
or:
“God our Mother and Father, in whom we live and move and have our being…”
The Collect of the Day is generally appointed, so substitutions or substantial revisions should be discussed with the priest. A supplementary collect before the service, during the prayers, or after Communion may be easier to introduce. - Include Wisdom theology explicitly. The presider, preacher, or intercessor might identify Christ with the biblical figure of Divine Wisdom:
“Christ, the Wisdom of God”
“Holy Wisdom, who was with God in the beginning”
“Wisdom, who prepares her table and calls her children to the feast”
This is particularly appropriate in a Eucharistic context because Proverbs depicts Wisdom as preparing a table and inviting people to eat and drink. It also connects feminine imagery directly with Christ rather than treating it as a separate devotional addition.
- Use feminine imagery in hymns. ???
This may be the least procedurally difficult method. Hymns can depict God as mother, midwife, Wisdom, sheltering bird, life-giver, or the womb of creation. The Episcopal Church’s liturgical resources explicitly recognize hymns grounded in inclusive language and feminist theology. A congregation might introduce one such hymn monthly or during selected seasons. - Recover feminine imagery for the Holy Spirit.
The Spirit may be described through images such as breath, fire, dove, Wisdom, comforter, life-giver, and the one who labors within creation. This can be done in preaching, intercessions, hymnody, and introductions to the readings without altering the baptismal formula. - Use a recurring congregational response.
A modest response could normalize the imagery without redesigning the service:
“Holy Wisdom, hear our prayer.”
“Mothering God, renew your creation.”
“Gather us beneath your wings.”
This could appear in the Prayers of the People during a particular season or once a month.
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